Neuroscience, Trust & The Hidden Work Of Leadership - Tamera Schmidt

Tamera Schmidt draws on her 20-plus years at Hewlett Packard leading transformational change, including managing a company split while returning from maternity leave, to explain concepts like "camouflage change," the neuroscience-backed practice of asking permission before offering feedback, and the use of gratitude and breathing exercises to move clients out of a reactive, fight-or-flight state. She details her Revenue Leadership Accelerator model, built around a Trust-Clarity-Performance framework, and describes hands-on exercises she uses with executive teams — from service projects to storytelling contests — designed to break down corporate personas. The conversation closes with a candid story from Malaysia, where Schmidt navigated a client's discomfort working with a female leader through humor, empathy, and cultural sensitivity.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello everyone, welcome back to a new episode of the Speech Inspired Show. I am your host, uh Claudio Murgan. For previous episodes, please uh visit uh speechoinspired.ca or ours network or our YouTube channel. My uh guest uh today is uh Tamara Schmidt, and uh we are going to talk about neuroscience, leadership, enlightenment, and much more. So, Tamara, thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Uh it's my pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

I know that before coaching, you work as a med flight nurse and clinical consultant. What did split second high-stakes decision making in that world teach you that later become core to how you coach revenue leaders?

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Um, that everyone has a story, and we must always begin with assuming positive intent.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Interesting. And now, with being a neuroscience certified practitioner and studied through the uh neuroleadership uh institute, is something that you improved with your own um, let's say, fingerprint, your own touch to what the programs taught you?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Yes and no. Have you ever had that point in time where you realize everything you've ever done has led you to exactly where you are? The times that I have reached into the toolkit, um, you know, in corporate America, I was always in charge of transformational change. May I give you an example of one?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Please.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

So um I spent the first 20 some odd years of my career at an illustrious company called Hewlett Packard. Um, and when you say it British, it sounds so much better. Hewlett Packard, right? And so um I was actually, you know, really got great uh gifts in my career development and things I could do, etc. And I was home on maternity leave when the CEOs of what was going to be two companies, because they decided to split the two. Uh, you know, and I knew both of them. Um, and they're like, hey, can we come over and bring you um a baby gift? I'm like, sure. And in that discussion, there was, hey, listen, we're going to announce it shortly. We're going to split into two companies. And we really think you need to go with CEO too. And we're asking you to come on board, come off a maternity leave, literally, and be in charge of the change office. Now, imagine day one, we can't take a credit card for customer education and all the legacy systems, even your logots, are gone. And so I spent a good 18 months just navigating that change. So when I went and studied neuroscience, so much of, oh my gosh, I've been doing this and I've been doing this. But what I would say is when you're in roles of leadership, when you're coaching others for their impact on their people and how they will lead, um, what I see in general is we constantly ask for change, relentlessly ask for change. And frankly, in a corporate setting, all those executives go off and they have all those, you know, stages of grief, frankly, you know, acceptance, denial, bargaining, all that, but we call them strategy sessions. And then they come out of it and say, hey, Tam, you know, we need you to lay off half your function. And, oh, and can you have it done by next week? And so taking the neuroscience of change and the neuroleadership, uh neuroleadership institute language, I kind of coined a phrase called camouflage change because most of us are so numb to it all. We just want to hide and have that sucker pass us by. And so I think the most exciting thing about understanding how the brain works, how change works from a neuroscientific method, is it's a manner by which to re-engage anyone that is faced with change no matter what the circumstances are.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yes, and the reason, I mean, the discussion is taking uh a direction which I didn't expect, and that's amazing. The reason I ask you why or if you try to bring something new into that process is because I interviewed uh a handful of psychologists who did something like that. They brought tarot into their uh practice, they uh brought the medicine wheel from the indigenous people into their practice, they brought self-realization techniques into their practice, and they were accepted, these practices were accepted by the clients. So that's why I also ask you coming from the IT environment into this new um interesting brain-related um environment, maybe you found something that will bring these two together and make it easier for the leaders to embrace the change and a higher level of consciousness, because I'm very big into that.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Absolutely. So, um, with my history and my background, there are breathing exercises, et cetera. And I often introduce them. And even the way a discussion would begin with a client, um, where it's called be doing a clear, where we go from event to event, place to place, you know, et cetera. God help us if we need to use the loo. Um, and so people show up for a meeting with me as a client, or I'm facilitating, and they've just kind of like practically skid through the door. And a clearing is an easy exercise where you literally say, All right, let's get whatever's in your brain out of it for a moment and see if you can put it aside. And you name what it is, you state what you can release, and then you go deeper and get into the topics, etc. The other thing that I quite naturally brought to the table, I kind of stumbled over it, but I use it in everything I do now is this idea of asking permission. From a certain neuroscience perspective, and I often call it, you know, wait till your mother gets home or your father gets home, threats, right? You know, hey, do you have time to talk? Oh boy, what's that going to be? And so we're always struggling and we go into our reptilian brain, and that is literally fight or flight. Crap, I'm gonna die. Right. And so if we get a chance to ask permission, we in general help every human being we're working with understand they always have control, they don't go flying into oh no, no, no, no, no. And it almost becomes comedic because clients hate when I ask when we have an established relationship. And they're like, yes, yes, of course, you know. I mean, the reason I work with you, I'm like, no. And I'll even torture them today. Every time I ask permission before sharing an insight or offering you a challenge to rethink how we're approaching this, I want you to say no. They're like, what? Say no. And the neuroscience of how the brain works and the fact that we need something, as you said, with the indigenous people and all, and it's part of my life practice, anyhow. The easiest way to the frontal cortex, which by science we know is where change can occur, is gratitude. May I give you an example of a funny way to apply it?

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Please.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

So at some point in my career, I ran all of the customer-facing onboarding for a multi-billion dollar company globally. So we know the European theater has different needs and ways of thinking, you know, Asia has, and then North America. And yes, I had a team, but boy, I was on the road a lot. But that's a different story. And um, so at the very end of every uh, it's it was like a 10-day event. Um, at the end of it, I would ask them to find a partner. And this person and you would work together for a year. And the whole point is that I can fix anything when you're in the room with me. But when you go to your home office or whatever, the walls start closing in. And we often think we are the only one that's having the problem with the IT infrastructure or whatever it is. And so I um would give them a neuroscience method of starting the meeting. I said they had to set a schedule that they would talk once a week for no more than 30 minutes or whatever. They had to rotate who was in charge of it. And if all they could do in order to practice gratitude is get on the phone with, say it's you and I that are partnered. Oh my God, I am so glad you're here. I have been having the crappiest week. Everything has gone wrong, but I can practice gratitude that you picked up the flipping phone today. So infusing gratitude and breathing and assuming positive intent isn't talking about the science, but it naturally evokes it.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yes, interesting. And I also developed a program called the Visionary Leader's Voice, which I'm trying to help the leaders find their voice through writing. Um, and I know from my experience and interaction with other guests that when you have a small number of people, let's say no more than eight, they are willing to share. Um, you hold space for them and they take turns, they share, then they write down uh their thoughts, they have a let's say a week to to process that information, do a little bit of a of a homework, try the techniques you mentioned, breath work, meditation, and this should become a daily habit for each one of them. Because my my logo is uh uh transform the leader, transform the organization. And even if you have to take it one at a time, it's better than doing nothing.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Right, right. We're also faced right now um with generational differences in leadership style and impact. And um, you know, I I've I've gotten the phone call, I'm sure you have too, where it's like, you know, the C-suite wants me to come in and tell them how to work with Gen Z. It's like it's not working. And I often say, well, okay. Um, are you willing to have the most unusual workshop or conversation ever? And they're like, Well, we trust you, otherwise we wouldn't call you. They may have buyer's remorse, by the way. Um, because what I will do is I will have everybody start on my side of the room. Okay, and I will ask a fairly challenging, fairly unusual question. It could be about addiction, it could be about meditation, it could be about suicide, it could be about um death, you know. And when I say something that is a truth for you, you need to cross the line. And I might have 20, 25, 30 questions sometimes. They go very quickly, but in the end, you realize you have more alike than you know, different. And then we spend the rest of the time working on your leadership scorecard versus identifying the different people. All anybody wants is a true north by which they understand they're being measured by. Our jobs as leaders and managers, very much like the writing that you're bringing to them, is to identify how I get out of their way and they can be the best. And I get to learn from you.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yes, very interesting. And you mentioned uh the scorecard, and I am not a big proponent on you know the PKIs, the ROIs, because this you know drives everyone crazy, especially the guys at the top. They have no life balance, they they have no rest. Again, it drives themselves nuts because of numbers, is the most important uh thing in corporate. Right. And I know you developed the uh revenue leadership accelerated model. How is that different? What that brings something new to the table.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Um so what it brings to the table is seeing the whole person versus focused on, as you said, that you know, OKRs, KPIs, give me three-letter acronyms and let's invent another number to it, right? And because my history and my most prevalent client base is always customer-facing, they are living in a 12-week artificial lifestyle, let alone maybe we get to 24 when it's the first half versus the second half. And so the leadership accelerators are built under what I call TCP. Trust is the number one thing you must establish and do. Then you can get into clarity, which is roles, responsibilities. And only once you understand those things can you start measuring performance. And the individuals find out, oh my gosh, I can't be trusted. Job. So they don't have the C, you know, in their vernacular. And what I've done, and you all we already know it, is I've taken that number, that P thing, and put it all the way at the other end. So a cohort of revenue leadership accelerators is six weeks. The reason it's six weeks is because if I did anything for 12 weeks around that team, they wouldn't show up half the time, anyhow. And the second thing is that I don't want them to start looking at the numbers at all. And um, by being able to analyze what I am doing to establish trust, who do I trust? How do I measure that? If you can give me how you measure the T and the C, the P takes care of itself, aka performance. But guess what? None of those are numbers. I mean, how about a simple thing like, who do you trust in your organization? And I use this term very carefully because sometimes organizations think I know something. And yes, I often do that there's a re-org or somebody's leaving for who do you think is coaching them so they can leave? But that's nonetheless. So I have to be really careful how I bring this up because I can inadvertently start a bunch of rumors. So I might use the term with a leadership team. Let's imagine you've been abducted by aliens. We can only assume at that point they are not in their reptilian brain and they don't think I know a damn thing, which is great for the rest of the discussion. Who on your team do you trust to take over immediately because you didn't have a plan and you were simply abducted? And they're like, oh no, nobody. Okay, guess what? We can have a further discussion that you are failing the organization, period. And then, you know, particularly in revenue or customer facing, you always have that A, B, and C. How are you measuring your A's? How are you measuring your B's? How are you measuring C's? Neuroscience also tells us that B players are your most powerful people. And we go from the A's because it's like having your best favorite Starbucks drink to your C's, where you're like, oh my God, here we go. Again, right, that old discussion, and you miss out on your B's. So have you had under trust and clarity, um, have you had a discussion? What does that B player want to be when they grow up? And I will add another twist if you don't mind. I tell everyone that if you're new to an organization, you are automatically a B player. We don't have enough information either way, but your job as their manager, their leader, is to teach and tell. And just because performance reviews come up three months in to their development time, they're still a B. If you show B, you put them anywhere else, we are going to have an entirely new conversation.

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SPEAKER_00 19:06

Yeah, interesting. And staying on the uh discussion of uh leadership and um consciousness and how they interact

(Cont.) Neuroscience, Trust & The Hidden Work Of Leadership - Tamera Schmidt

SPEAKER_00 19:16

with uh the corporate world and the outside world. Again, in my experience, it's like they they live two different lives. Sometimes they open up to the family and to their friends regarding subjects and passions that are not related to their job, but most of the time they hide that from their co-workers. And I wrote something on LinkedIn recently where I dare them to be yourself even in the corporate world, in your job. Why are you afraid and ashamed of what you are doing, what you are passionate about? And if it's not golf, because everyone will talk about golf, I'm talking about subjects like you know, writing a book, um, out-of-the-body experiences like Robert Monroe, or you know, looking for UFOs or something odd. Be open about it. Because when you are open, you are encouraging your whole leadership uh line to be open about what they do, and then you kind of have a much better understanding and you make a better team. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Amen. Um, so I I not only agree, but I also build in two things um into programs that I develop that I lead, etc. First off, um one day let's imagine I get them in person. I know we still do a lot of things virtually, but let's imagine that I get you in person. And so the first day or by evening, we are gonna go on a service project. Ideally, it's a customer of the company we're working with, but you know, it it's a way to drop your guard, we're doing something good. You know, most of the organizations I work with are they've already won the grass, the brass ring in life. I mean, they're multi-billion dollar companies, they wouldn't be there if they weren't the best of the best, right? And so they have time to give back, but you're pointing out they don't have time at all. Right. So I always require an off-site um to include service. Um and there, everybody lets down the guard. They do something cool, they find something else. And by the way, that includes every president's club I've ever run, which is the best of the best of the best. I mean, you know, I've worked along with a uh legend, Edward Parati. Um, and you know, we have revitalized the schools on an island that was devastated by a hurricane. Because you know what? I had 500 able bodied people. And so I do believe service is a universal way for everyone to put down their guards, stop their imaging, their brand identities, and get over themselves and do something that matters. So that's a cool place. Second is if we're local, a lot of times I'll have them invite their families to join us. At that point, all bets are off, right? Which is really cool too. The other thing that I do, and as you can imagine, I'm often brought in. I used to run the sales kickoff. And there's usually the company-wide kickoff at the beginning of the year, usually about the fourth week. And there is often a mid-year something or other. And in those, I always have one contest. Okay. The contest is you must be able to tell the story of what we do for a living to your children or your parents or somebody who has nothing to do with tech that you met on vacation. And we judge them and we reward them and everything else. But why am I doing that? Because I've broken you of the habit of being in love with our language and making us exclusive to what we think matters, and we all get to get over ourselves. And the stories that come back, or the and we videotape you, right? And you know, I encourage them, you know, uh, use that in a team meeting. The other exercise that I have often brought in to let them let go down their guard, but be a part of something, which is this I hold true as an exercise. And so, you know, we put them the wheel up, and you know, how do you spend your time and everything else? And we point out that much is the family, and that much is the company, and all that nonsense. And so then once they write up all these things they do that makes them so important, and I'm not saying they're not, but there's a disconnect, right? I let them break out into teams, and they have to come back and present to us what is true to change that percentage, and how are you going to do it?

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

So those hand-on exercises, and by the way, you can do that over Zoom. I had to come up with some more creative ones because nobody is going to just raise their hand about an addiction or something like that. You have to choose your exercises and your media, shall we say?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Yeah. And if you allow me, I will add the level of complexity to that exercise you mentioned that uh to explain how we explain the family what we will do in a different language.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yes, yes, do it.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

When I say add, make it them say it in a different language.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Oh, oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

That'll make it even more funny.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Oh, that would be well, and what you're bringing up is say, um, a lot of times people will say, Well, you are, let's be candid, a white American. By the way, I'm half Canadian, but that does, you know, we're very kissing cousins on that. You know, I don't speak another language. And so, yes, I am of a population. I'll be 65 next month. And so I'm an older white woman. Um, but on the other hand, I've been running global organizations for years, and I have been helping revenue generators do their job. Now, I will confess there have been one or two times in my entire career that we are going to get into what I call a sticky wicket. Um, I was in Malaysia and I was running everything, which, you know, that's a typical title and role I'm gonna take on in corporate America. And you could tell one of the men, and I will say this was I you guys will be able to guess what country he was from, uh, was just like so not going to show up. I mean, just I mean, if if looks could kill, I wouldn't be here today. And um and I'm processing, what's wrong? What did I do? How come I'm not connecting? Well, his country didn't have any women in leadership of any kind because at that point they were aborting female children so they didn't come into the world. So I was up against every possible cultural norm that he and and I think what's most important is when I tell that story, I'm not doing it for shock. I'm not saying I was right, he was wrong. That's all he knew. Yeah, again, as you said, it's a cultural thing, and I I you know, I we can get me on a soliloquy about ugly Americans, and we won't do that. I hope to never, ever, ever. I I'm so embarrassed by my peers sometimes. But anyhow, and so he was somewhere near me that evening, and as is true anytime I end up in Asia, there is nothing they love more than making me sing karaoke because I'm hideous and they can all laugh at me. And you know, go a step further. I'm gonna sing California Girls because it's really obvious, right? And I'm still hideous, right? So it's always good. Let's get me up there, let's like go, oh my God, I forgot earplugs and roast the heck out of me. That's all fine. So he got a fabulous laugh. Actually, he was being punished because he had to hear me sing altogether. And so afterwards, I went over and I said, May I touch you on the hand? And he like looked at me and he goes, Yes. And so I reached out and I touched his hand and I said, I know I've made you very uncomfortable this week. I know that just my presence is probably something that you would rather twit your nose and make me evaporate. He goes, Can I do that? I said, Oh, if I had that skill, I would do it for myself. So no, I don't have that. And he's beginning to, you can tell I'm using humor to kind of bring down his defenses. I already know he got a good laugh on me. Not a problem. And I said to him, At the end of this week, you are going to go back home. You're going to spend time with your family, you're going to be part of your culture. But you work for a company that we need you to achieve certain things, and that brings you pride and provides for your family. He goes, Well, yes, of course. I said, Could you consider grapple with it tonight? You can pretend I'm a man, you can tell them you got it from the coolest human you ever met and leave my name out. But I really do know what I'm doing. And at the end, what we are doing here, if you can bypass my gender, it would allow you to do what you do best, which is bring honor and dignity to your family and provide beyond your wildest dreams. And he looked at me and I said, And if you want to do it that way, I will sing a cappello tomorrow night, and you can be the person who chooses the song, and you can even throw things at me. He goes, I can. I said, Yes. And I always bring nerf balls in case we get to that problem. I'm selective on what you can throw to me. And the ironic thing about that sequence is, you know, from a scientific perspective, I didn't have to be right. I understood where he might be coming from, but I wasn't gonna pin him about it. I made sure to humiliate myself so he could be amused. I asked permission before even touching him. I gave him a win to restore his ego or whatever, because he could torture the crap out of me the following day. But in the end, he got to do what he needed to do most, which is find a new way to make his money and honor his family. And the irony is he became the head of that country's infrastructure about eight years later. And I will always tell you the coolest phone call I have ever received in my business life was him asking me to come and run his leadership transition meeting.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

So I think all things are possible if we don't get in our own way.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yes, and Tamara, I think this leads me to a question which I don't ask too often on this uh podcast. Oh no. And uh might trigger you a little bit, or we'll see. I always say that if these leaders, they are let's say corporate or politic politics, they will know themselves better before stepping onto this path. And by doing that, they can get some help from sacred plant medicine in a controlled environment, let's say they will find out about themselves, they will shed some trauma, they will be able to freely cry out that trauma in a again, safe environment. Do you think that this will help them? Have you had this experience with certain leaders you interacted with?

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Absolutely. Um I have allowed them, um, you and I briefly before we went on live, you have multiple books, you have another one coming out. I am so excited to learn more about those things. And I am dabbling in my first book ever. And it's called The During. And the During is defined by there is always something underneath the covers that is changing for somebody. We don't bring it to work, we continue to highly perform, but every one of us is changing all the time. Sometimes it's the worst phone call you will ever get in your life. And so the ability to establish trust and let them be vulnerable. Um, I call it the outside the building walkabout, you know, because they're not going to say it in the building, right? And so, um, and I do struggle with cigarette smokers. We still have a great many in the world, and that would be an automatic reason for them to go outside the building. But I always tell anybody who encounters me, there is no place we can't go if you want to walk and share. And I have gotten phone calls that I never imagined. I've had people share things that I never imagined. And I tell anybody when it comes up, I hold your trust in such a place of honor. And then at the end of it, I might challenge them to ask how might you apply what you're learning in your state of discomfort to become a better leader for somebody else?

SPEAKER_00 35:05

Yes, interesting. Can you share more, please, about um your enlightened coach program? Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

So um I'm gonna go backwards and then I'm gonna go forwards. Um I have the reason it's enlightened as a word, as a definition for the company, is because I started it when my husband was dying of a terminal brain cancer. And I've always been a high performer, and I've always, you know, gone job to job. There were phone calls before I even thought about leaving, you know, that whole thing. Fine, whatever. And um, we had had organizational changes, and I was working for somebody who wasn't terribly fond of me. It happens all the time. And but yet I was kind of isolated from what this individual could do to me because I was very well known in the company, right? Which happens a lot, right? Fine. And so the diagnosis came and she ran in and said, Oh, we have to put her on the layoff list. Because she needs to be with her husband, and this way we can give her cash and prizes and she can focus on family. This is the nicest thing we could do. I have lots of colorful words about that experience. Um, and so, okay, gee, thanks. And so then it'll be about four months after that. I can't get to an interview because we might have a 12-hour doctor's appointment for my husband. Um, you know, we have surgery that goes on for 17 hours, and you never ever wanted to get the email. We're so delighted that they can use anesthesia instead of making them stay awake for 17 hours. I mean, this is my life, right? So I started the company. And the first thing I did, not knowing I would lean into it, was use the neuroscience background and the difference. And so I put out word to anybody who had ever worked with me before. And, you know, the kind of things that I the company does is we have cohorts, um, of six-week cohorts, revenue generating, revenue generating teams. Usually it's a team of four or six people. Um, I love when I get cross-industry ones, because people, as you've been mentioning, talk more freely and we learn more instead of everybody's got the same, you know, SAS way of talking or whatever, right? And so that's a side of it. Um, I have the strategic uh, the non-revenue teams, those that need to collaborate more, and you know, those groups. Um, and the reason I do them virtually now, even though I facilitate and build workshops and all that stuff under my company, is that people in these roles don't have more time to go travel to or whatever. I want it to be applicable, I want it to be available, I want to apply it. You already heard about the TCP, you can imagine how the six weeks look. And then you get a coaching prompt. The neuroscience says a bunch of words mean nothing. They have to apply it. And the beginning of the next session is always going to be where did you use it? What worked and what didn't. Now, when we talk about what didn't work, I want to go back to the neuroscience too. In our high-performing world that everybody has to be on and has to be the best, let alone a revenue generating team, there is no vulnerability in those groups ever. Um I introduce the idea what's one thing you want to do over on. That point is to learn from your mistakes, but not beat the hell out of yourself and forevermore, etc. And by the way, failing or not making it work is as much learning as getting it right. And I want you to be in a safe environment to do that. So those are the cohorts. The other series of cohorts I do in there, and of course, I do public speaking and build workshops and facilitate and all that stuff. But the other area that I see that nobody's touching or they should be, and they still aren't, and don't tell anybody, because I love doing this all the time, is the new and emerging managers. We somehow seem to think that one day you're just, you know, we're gonna give you the job, and by golly, you're gonna love it. I mean, talk about buyer's remorse when you get it. And the other thing is, I do things from a simulation basis. So every six-week cohort has a custom character, right? So there's a case study that builds each week. So whatever I'm teaching you and you're practicing, you get to use the best of the best as the case study all the way through. And what I love is when I get that emerging manager and you want to be it, and you think you want to be it, but after a six-week series with me, you're like, I don't want to do that. Isn't that wonderful to know?

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah. You know, like finding a new hobby in the same company, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Or the college degree that you're three and a half years into, and you realize you hate what you're planning on doing for a living when you're done. I mean, that's three and a half years wasted. Let's let's do it differently, shall we?

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Yeah, and it happens all the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Right. So those are, you know, so I have the facilitation, but I think my greatest joy is a simulation-based, safe, cohort learning environment. So you may practice, fail, examine, think about how you want to show up and make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yeah, very, very interesting. And Tamara, I want to go back to a comment you made um 10, 15 minutes ago about you and that CEO who helped rebuild the school system. I created the program called Chief Consciousness Officer with that in mind to teach CEOs to give away responsibly, not necessarily to the big corporations or the big nonprofits, which everyone knows, but to the small NGOs or associations which are run by volunteers, and all the dollars go to build a house, to build a hospital, to teach teachers how to teach. And all these small uh initiatives that carry a lot of weight in countries in, let's say, Ghana, Colombia, um, Guatemala, rather than again giving it to the companies whose CEOs are paid very large. Do you think that this type of work is still required these days at that level?

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Oh, absolutely. I think that we are going through a time where our humanity is being called into question and how we show up is all that matters. And so, yes, there's the big ones. I mean, you know, I'm old enough that there were certain ones that were just mandatory. United Way used to be an air, you know, September, United Way, everybody's gonna get whatever. But the smaller the giving back, the doing this. Now, first off, it's so funny how I like backdoor this under the practical leadership people. Um, I tell them all the time that when you have to sell to the C-suite, they don't care about the widget and whatnot that you carry quota for that's in your briefcase. But they do care about the fact that you work for March of Dimes, you volunteer your time. Um, I live in Bend, Oregon, Bend, Oregon on 4th of July, and they've done it every year since 1936, except two times, has a pet parade. Thousands of people scheduled to be in this town for the pet parade. I mean, it's a whole thing. Now, I have volunteered at it for nine out of the 10 years I've lived in this town. Imagine how fun a conversation I get to have when all of my execs on Monday, today, after this holiday weekend, say, What did you do? Can I send you pictures? I worked at the pet parade. What did you do at the pet parade, damn? I gave out water. You you gave out water. You do realize you charge X an hour and you were giving out water. I said, Well, not to the people, to the animals. The people need to have a better plan. And people, and they're like, oh, oh, oh. And every human we interact with has some place that they want to be of service. And it's so amusing to me that I can get an executive to let me in simply by saying, guess what? The C-suite doesn't care about your quota, but they might care about the fact that Tam gives out water at the local pet parade on the 4th of July weekend every year. And then once you get in there, you find out where or how we can give back as a community.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. And uh, Tamara, we are coming uh to the end of this wonderful discussion. Any final words?

SPEAKER_02 45:56

I just really appreciate the work you're doing and the illumination of what is possible and how you gather us together to give your audience a chance to look at the human nature of leading.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Thank you very much, and thank you for everything you are doing in the world. Thank you. And to my viewers, thank you for watching. Share it, leave a comment, and until next time, love and gratitude.